Saro TG263 Insanity, committed and beyond fantasy

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Re: Saro TG263 Insanity, committed and beyond fantasy

Postby BillG » Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:59 pm

Dave I was searching around the basement, to see what types of glassing epoxy I have on hand. All of it was of the slower cure type. Given my impatience, I'd probably try to mix up an entire can's worth of 5 minute epoxy and see if I could glass over 1/2 of the fuse in one shot. :D Fortunately, I haven't seen fast cure sold in quantity.

3 lbs AUW with 20oz/sq-ft wing loading. The scale was not zeroed after placing the foam pad on it, which weighs several grams. That will account for the wing joining weight to come later.
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Re: Saro TG263 Insanity, committed and beyond fantasy

Postby HO229 » Wed Jan 12, 2011 6:21 pm

It’s probably all for the better Bill; any spot that was lacking in release agent or draft angle would have damaged your fuselage upon pulling it from the mold.
Will you be tossing it for a test go anytime soon (I like to toss my prototypes in very tall grass/weeds in the event of a mishap)?

Tangent:
I am going to give Rust-oleum marine primer a go along with the Rust-oleum marine top coats; these items can be purchased at Lowes at reasonable price (when the weather warms up a bit).
High solid…; mixed with common Xylene for spraying or mineral spirits for brushing.
(These products have good reviews for many applications)

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss? ... &x=16&y=17

Dave
Proverbs 27:17
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Re: Saro TG263 Insanity, committed and beyond fantasy

Postby BillG » Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:19 am

HO229 wrote:It’s probably all for the better Bill; any spot that was lacking in release agent or draft angle would have damaged your fuselage upon pulling it from the mold.
Will you be tossing it for a test go anytime soon (I like to toss my prototypes in very tall grass/weeds in the event of a mishap)?

Tangent:
I am going to give Rust-oleum marine primer a go along with the Rust-oleum marine top coats; these items can be purchased at Lowes at reasonable price (when the weather warms up a bit).
High solid…; mixed with common Xylene for spraying or mineral spirits for brushing.
(These products have good reviews for many applications)

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss? ... &x=16&y=17

Dave
Yep, when it warms up a bit. I wish it was well into spring now, as I have 3 seaplanes waiting to fly. II have a nearby park that has a massive unmowed field, that is perfect for tests. I'll probably just try this one out in the water, for the first time. For whatever reasons, I actually have faith in this one.

I'll probably just assemble the wings, but I haven't quite given up on the glass molding idea. They are just tacked in place, in the last photo. I would be terrified of release agent not working properly, or not being able to get the glass fuse from the mold. The idea would be to first wrap it with something like Saran wrap. That would admittedly produce a terrible result, which would then require considerable work. This would be along with the fact that it would have to be glassed lightly, so that I could slide it rearward off of the exhaust bulges, and coerced off of anything else holding it on. Made that lightly, it could end up being too flimsy to work with. I did something similar to that with my Seabee engine cover with lousy resin, and ended up wasting several ounces of thick CA and glass to stiffen it up from the inside. The cover was so flimsy that I just wanted to set it into shape, as soon as possible. It worked out well, but that's not something that you would or could do at this scale, requiring 1qt of thick CA. :lol:
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May as well show the whole thing, after showing the cover. It has a grille now too. I've had this plane for several years now, and it's as flight ready as it will ever get. I really need to test this plane out this spring also.
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Re: Saro TG263 Insanity, committed and beyond fantasy

Postby HO229 » Thu Jan 13, 2011 12:37 pm

Bill,
Nice looking model; do you have a servo on the landing gear?

Scale it up to 1/4 scale and fly the family pet around the lake :twisted:

Dave
Proverbs 27:17
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Re: Saro TG263 Insanity, committed and beyond fantasy

Postby BillG » Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:28 pm

HO229 wrote:Bill,
Nice looking model; do you have a servo on the landing gear?

Scale it up to 1/4 scale and fly the family pet around the lake :twisted:

Dave
The Seabee has fully functional retracts, including a steerable/retractable tailwheel. It even has a full interior with light switch on the instrument panel for the lighting system. Probably about hamster scale now. :lol: One concern I have is that the tailwheel may hamper the ability to get up on a plane, as it only swings so far out of the water. If it can overcome it, then it should be fine. The steering is done by a pull cable, with a spring on the tailwheel for constant tension. This is needed since the cable length changes when it retracts. It was a lot of work, but now that I have the concepts resolved, I'd love to build a larger version with more robust gear.

A bit of trivia is that the Seabee is modeled after Jim Poel's full scale Seabee, who is also the pilot of the Curtiss America. I hope he is doing better, as he was seriously injured in an engine out landing with a smaller Curtiss replica last August. I'm usually not a light blue fan, but his blue Seabee has the best looking scheme of all that I came across. Not surprising that it is posted all over the web, including Airliners.net.
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Re: Saro TG263 Insanity, committed and beyond fantasy

Postby AlexNortonesq » Thu Jan 13, 2011 11:50 pm

I had a ride with Jim in his Seabee just hours before the first public flight of the America. It was a memorable experience. I hope he is recovering quickly.
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Re: Saro TG263 Insanity, committed and beyond fantasy

Postby mcg » Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:23 pm

The Saro has turned out beautifully -- can't wait to see the video!

Re the fiberglass. Maybe there would be a non-destructive way to do this. At a rapid prototyping shop I visited near Hartford about a year ago, they were laser scanning a prototype object (a gnome, actually, for a video game) into a CAD program, probably Rhino. They just put the gnome of a turntable and let the laser scan it for a few minutes as it went round and round. The object could then be reproduced at any scale. They said.

However, the reflective surface of the covering might confound a scanner of this type. Also, are you likely to make some changes after you fly it? Michael
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Re: Saro TG263 Insanity, committed and beyond fantasy

Postby BillG » Sun Jan 16, 2011 6:30 pm

Alex, the Seabee flight with Jim sounds like an enjoyable experience. We used to have a family cottage on the next finger lake west, Canandaigua. I would love to have an opportunity to fly in the Seabee over Keuka. I've done some searching and have not been able to find any recent information concerning Jim's recovery. I hope he is doing well also.

Michael, I've been having similar thoughts about scanning and other new technologies, as I've decided to just put the wings on this plane and complete it. It will be interesting to see what the future will bring for rapid prototyping. I've heard of the surface scanning for a while, but it may someday even be able to make it into our homes, at an affordable price. The advancements in resins will also make a useable end result. I remember the earlier SLAs, where the material was weak and brittle. I understand that the modern resins are almost as good as the production molded plastics, if not as good.

I have enough solid foam around here, that I could just make a dedicated plug for molding. That is, if I decide to create another snow storm in the basement. :shock:
I'm sure you remember the smaller Saro foam/epoxy coated fuse, as you were the thread starter. Maybe I'll make a larger one like this plane, or maybe even larger for 90mm fans. BTW, "Saro's other jet seaplane" with the high intake would still be an interesting project for someone.

Foam fuse of the smaller 32" Saro A1
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Re: Saro TG263 Insanity, committed and beyond fantasy

Postby HO229 » Sun Jan 16, 2011 9:32 pm

The white foam.... Hmmm... what a mess it makes! static cling has nothing on that stuff...

I do not like working it in the shop, can't get it out of the shop... works nice with tools.

Dave
Proverbs 27:17
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Re: Saro TG263 Insanity, committed and beyond fantasy

Postby BillG » Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:14 am

Dave I found a great method for sculpting white bead foam, and yet it does make a mess:
I use rough grit and medium grit, stiff backed sanding belts. The belt is the best universal shaping tool I have found. Depending on how you hold it and use it, almost any contour can be created. I've even used them to shape wings, while checking with an airfoil template.

I'll add some Saro pictures soon, when I load them into the computer, and get back on track.

I made this wing with the sanding belts for an EDF40 ME262 which worked out well.
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The fuse is one of many sheeted foam cores, shaped with sanding belts>
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