Saro TG263 Insanity, committed and beyond fantasy

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Saro TG263 Insanity, committed and beyond fantasy

Postby BillG » Fri Dec 03, 2010 11:22 pm

That's right, this isn't yet another TG263, aka A1, theoretical discussion for a planned build that vaporizes.
For whatever reason, I'm absolutely obsessed with having this plane as an rc flying boat model, and will give it yet another try.
I built one a few years back, which I still need to simply give a good toss and see it it will fly. I lost interest, after discovering that I had built the bow too short and off scale, which caused the plane to ingest water with the slightest of waves. The plane is also small and heavy at 32" or so, not being a practical size for an rc version of a ship such as this. I took the foam route the last time, as I had a GWS ME262 fuselage, and I could easily see an ME262 inside of every Saro A1. Using what you have on hand is not always the best way to begin a well planned build. This new build is planned around a 69mm Eflite Delta-V fan, sized to ensure ample air intake area to avoid power loss. The scale is sized for a 40" span, but given the added size of sheeting and a bit of fudge factor, it may go to 42" or so.

My first A1, still in existence with some small ugly little bubbles under the water line, due to swelled filler.
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Using the MS Paint (aka Garbage CAD) plan. We'll worry about adding the exhaust bulges when the time comes, so as to not be overwhelmed with planning. The sections were resolved through mental telepathy, and most certainly will require a bit of further reshaping.
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Photos make things look good. There's a bunch of little gussets, stringers, and other assorted crap glued onto the keels and formers, to keep things from ending up like a pretzel. Hey, as long as you don't see it when finished.
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Just one of a million ways to go about this.
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Sculpted nose-intake area. The center framer will later be cut away.
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Parts used for internal elevator linkage. I've used this design before which works well, but requires a rudder that is thick enough to house the linkage parts. I decided to use nylon adjusters, as the gold links add weight.
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A flat is filed on the joiner bar, and the bolt is tightened well, as you won't be able to get inside the rudder and re-tighten, if it loosens.
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The joiner bar is now "floating, and will be on aligned with the elevator hinge line axis, when the elevator is later installed.
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A recessed curve is necessary to minimize the rudder hinge gap, with a thick rudder. If not, then it won't have ample throw with a tight gap. Some idiot forgot about that in the midnight hours when locating the pivot bushing, which required padding the hinge frame inward, adding material to carve the curve.
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Both water and air rudders have internal linkage. 2 E-Z links are used on the water rudder arm, to hold the rudder-rudder pushrod straight, and to give some fine adjustment.
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Belt coupling with foam rubber seal will connect the fan exit duct to the rear duct tube, using a tie-wrap to strap tight. This will allow for removal of the fan, if necessary. The ESC cooling fins will be exposed to cooling air, through an opening in the ductway.
http://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/3/1/0/1/8/3/a3635324-75-SaroTG263_40in_14.jpg?d=1291343608

The "D" adapters for the final exhaust tubes at the split took 2 tries to size perfectly. Glue the "D" adapters in place, and then scrape away the inner overlap of the seam for a smooth transition.
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Re: Saro TG263 Insanity, committed and beyond fantasy

Postby TASSE » Sat Dec 04, 2010 12:48 am

Hi Will my 1/36 drawing of this shows the interior lay out of the jet pipes and correct sections. It is taken from Saro drawings. <roytassell.ie>

Cheers Roy.
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Re: Saro TG263 Insanity, committed and beyond fantasy

Postby Kuni » Sat Dec 04, 2010 9:25 am

Hi Bill,

you may find this (german) thread usefull: http://www.rc-network.de/forum/showthre ... light=saro

I had the opportunity to help finding one or another solution Herbert built. The model flew fine until one wing came off during a pull-out (Foam is not a good material for jets). He thinks about rebuilding her.
Here is a video from the maiden flight: http://www.rcmovie.de/video/d4dbebf3066 ... 1-Erstflug

Regards,
Rene
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Re: Saro TG263 Insanity, committed and beyond fantasy

Postby BillG » Sat Dec 04, 2010 9:32 am

TASSE wrote:Hi Will my 1/36 drawing of this shows the interior lay out of the jet pipes and correct sections. It is taken from Saro drawings. <roytassell.ie>

Cheers Roy.

Hello Roy,
I thought that this thread would catch your attention.
I should have looked at your site. Another guy at a different waterplane forum just stated yesterday that your Saro drawings are the best, by a good margin. If I wasn't so anxious and impulsive, it would have been better to start with your drawings. You've seen the excellent MS Paint enlarged drawing I have, LOL. :D
The excitement of the unusual EDF/seaplane combination has really motivated me once again to build. The Loening XSL-2 was so simplistic, that I had to push myself to complete it.


Weight check with batt at 26.4oz. EDFs are difficult to build light, but I'll try to keep things as light as possible, from this point onward.
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Re: Saro TG263 Insanity, committed and beyond fantasy

Postby Cameraman » Sat Dec 04, 2010 10:40 am

Hi Bill,

you may have to be a little insane to make an RC version but you'd need to be totally around the twist to build the real thing! Still I'm happy there are people in the World that make crazy decisions!

Looking forward to updates on this thread.

Regards

Reggie
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Re: Saro TG263 Insanity, committed and beyond fantasy

Postby TASSE » Sat Dec 04, 2010 3:47 pm

Hi Will, what are you going to do about retracting floats ? It needs to be twice the size to keep the wing loading down.

Good luck Roy.
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Re: Saro TG263 Insanity, committed and beyond fantasy

Postby BillG » Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:35 am

TASSE wrote:Hi Will, what are you going to do about retracting floats ? It needs to be twice the size to keep the wing loading down.

Good luck Roy.

Thanks
I agree that this plane needs to be large, to keep the wing loading down. As long as I can get it to fly, I'll have a chance, as I fly small, heavy jets. My first build was far too small. Retracting floats would be lovely, but would add weight. Not sure what I will do there. The wings are the area where I have to make up for some weight, and will decide how to build them as light as possible, while reasonably robust.

As of now, I have the bulges mostly resolved, while there will need to be some shaping to get the lines right. I plan to inset plank a few areas before sheeting, to provide additional sculpting latitude.
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Re: Saro TG263 Insanity, committed and beyond fantasy

Postby BillG » Thu Dec 09, 2010 6:23 pm

A bit more progress made on the Saro. The battery is now fitted where it should minimize the need for any CG setting ballast, and the internal tail controls are working well, with ample throws.

This is probably as far rearward as the batt will need to go, and has an inch or so of forward movement, if necessary.
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The canopy is also the battery and gear hatch cover. All gear is accessible under it, except for fan access.
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Looks a bit more like the Saro A1, with a canopy on the fuse.
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Re: Saro TG263 Insanity, committed and beyond fantasy

Postby TASSE » Fri Dec 10, 2010 3:03 am

Hi Will, you will find great construction photos of the Saro SR.A1 on the walk-round feature of Seawings.

Cheers Roy.
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Re: Saro TG263 Insanity, committed and beyond fantasy

Postby BillG » Thu Dec 16, 2010 5:27 am

TASSE wrote:Hi Will, you will find great construction photos of the Saro SR.A1 on the walk-round feature of Seawings.

Cheers Roy.
Roy they've been priceless. In fact, it's all Seawing's fault. Without their reference, I would never have attempted the build. :lol:

With a number of hours put in, the plane is coming along well. I've managed to get over the hump, so to speak, and have resolved a number of issues that had me shaking my head at one point, much better than I anticipated. The rapid prototyping build method has it's drawbacks, where there is no substitute for extensive planning. The only advantages with my method are that it resolves my issues with quickly becoming bored and losing interest, if I'm not actually building something, and that I actually end up with an airplane in my current life.

Wing construction is not my favorite task, and that said, this wing build went well. I constantly have to avoid the temptation to bash a purchase foam core wing. The wing for this model is slightly over scale at 42" span versus 40", with a slightly larger than scale chord, and slightly less than scale taper, all with an Eppler 193 airfoil. The 1/32" balsa sheeting is a bit more fragile than I would like, but the wing loading keeps looming over me. I've put everything on the scale including batt, all servos, canopy etc, and it weighed a bit less than 2 lbs, with all the sheeting (including wing at that time), rudder top, and covering remaining. I should be able to make 46oz AUW or hopefully better. 46oz will give me a wing load of 20oz/sq-ft, which is as high as I would like to go, and still have good faith in getting off the water.

The CF rods will be joined with tubing, and liberally epoxied to the ply bulkhead in front of them. There is a second "main spar" at the next rearward fuse former. This former will also be reinforced and the wing spars will be glued to it.
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The inner wing former angles were set as accurately as possible. I believe that the wing top should be level across the top to be scale, and the wings dip down 1mm or so. This will be easy to adjust and correct, with a hair of taper sanded into the wing mounting surface on the fuse.
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Getting past the "guess what it is going to be" point.
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