From the beginning, starting with C/N 1201,

The source for references and discussion on all types & marques of this Grumman amphibian: photos, plans, manual pages & documents.

Re: From the beginning, starting with C/N 1201,

Postby Rajay » Tue Apr 07, 2015 2:56 pm

Guess that means that Ed's two former airframes (1 G-44 and 1 SCAN Type 30) were something else - as of yet still to be identified or otherwise determined.

It can be hard to keep track of such things when they are very old, unairworthy "projects" and/or eventually get scrapped - it's not like there is any motivation to keep the public registration records up to date.

Mark, I should have recognized at least N890 as one of your former Widgeons - I knew that in the back of my head and it just did not come to the front when I started trying to figure out which airframes Ed was talking about. So, do you have any special plans to enjoy your Magnum G-44A this summer, aka seaplane season? Any trips planned, attendance at any airshows or seaplane events? I'd love to see it up close and in person at some point... :D
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Re: From the beginning, starting with C/N 1201,

Postby SeaplaneWorks » Tue Apr 07, 2015 3:44 pm

Well, at this point both N612GW and N440GW are in the shop at St Augustine, FL. N440GW should be flying soon and was hoping to get her in the air again for SNF. Unfortunately, trying to get a shop to fabricate new exhaust pipes at a reasonable price has been a bit of a challenge. The issue is that the pipe that is coming out of the wastegate starts off heading down but then snakes around to exit above the wing. Anyway, that is the last hurdle and will probably be in the air around the end of the month.

Not sure where you are located but if your somewhere between FL and NY, I can always stop there when I bring her back north.

Mark
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Re: From the beginning, starting with C/N 1201,

Postby ForsbergAviation » Wed Apr 08, 2015 2:31 am

There is a Widgeon sitting on a trailer on a farm in Locke, Ca. It was very dark blue with the Red Bull logo on it. Looks like a Scan 30 to me. Pretty busted up. The center section is up on a rack and the wings are tucked in along side. Any clues?
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Re: From the beginning, starting with C/N 1201,

Postby Rajay » Wed Apr 08, 2015 2:35 pm

ForsbergAviation wrote:There is a Widgeon sitting on a trailer on a farm in Locke, Ca. It was very dark blue with the Red Bull logo on it. Looks like a Scan 30 to me. Pretty busted up. The center section is up on a rack and the wings are tucked in along side. Any clues?

What about it makes it look like a SCAN Type 30 in particular as opposed to a Grumman G-44A? The only way to tell the difference - aside from doing metallurgical analyses and using a micrometer - is to look at the data tag and the records. The airplanes themselves are essentially identical and whatever mods or unique features one has almost certainly has nothing to do specifically with the fact that it is a Grumman G-44 or G-44A or SCAN Type 30; in other words, any one of them is as likely as any other one to have a particular mod.

That being said, the SCAN Type 30 Widgeons were more likely to have the PACE/Mansdorf 300-hp Lycoming R680 radial engine mod than the Grumman aircraft because the French-built SCANs never had a reliable or viable engine of their own and as such were prime candidates for the engine conversions de jour at the time most of them were re-assembled and certified in the US in the 1960's - by which time McKinnon for a different example was more focused on turbine Gooses. Still, some Grumman-built Widgeons also had that same radial engine conversion done on them, such as for example N404Q, Grumman G-44 serial no. 1388, which I believe is owned by Kermit Weeks.

Bill (MrWidgeon) recently noted that SCAN Type 30 s/n 30, formerly registered as OE-FWS in Austria to Red Bull, is supposedly undergoing restoration in Alaska after having sunk in a lake in Italy a while back. Apparently that needs to be updated since as far as I (or presumably anyone else) know, there is only one such dark blue Widgeon with Red Bull logos painted on it - and that is it.
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Re: From the beginning, starting with C/N 1201,

Postby ForsbergAviation » Wed Apr 08, 2015 5:33 pm

Really!
This same Widgeon, with the Red Bull logo,s was on the same trailer, (it's a Carson Trailer) was at the EAA Golden West fly-in California 2 summers ago. I talked to Tim Martin yesterday. He said he sold it 5 years ago to a guy in Northern California that has a second project.

You are correct on several points. When folks don't keep these old aircraft registered with the FAA, it makes them hard to track. When parts come up for sale, grab them. Like when I bought out Rod Heitman's Widgeon inventory 7 years ago.

The FAA's system of identification system is not perfect. Example; I purchased a Cessna T-50 Bobcat. It was never military, but was Registered as a JRC-1. The problem there is trying to educate the FAA Registry people is like teaching a pig to sing, it only wastes your time, and it annoys the pig. I have learned that it's best to leave the FAA alone. The inspectors today wouldn't know the difference between a G-44, G-44A, or a S.C.A.N 30.

I started out with Catalina Airlines in 1978, rebuilding Goose N322, SN B-73. We also had N22932, N11CS and N13CS that I helped rebuild.

N58837 was found in a hanger at Whiteman airpark in Southern California. I picked it up for a song. It had a clouded title. The glitch was the chain of ownership. I had to locate Robert L. Hall of Kodiak Air to get him to sign a bill of sale. Loal Holthrop told me he was living in Three Tree Point neat SEATAC airpori. I called and he was delighted to see me. He told me all about N58837. Did you know that Angus McKinnen's first Widgeon training took place in N58837.

Dave, maybe you should call Tim Martin and ask him who owns scan30sn30. I am sure you will be suprised.
Last edited by ForsbergAviation on Wed Apr 08, 2015 6:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: From the beginning, starting with C/N 1201,

Postby Rajay » Wed Apr 08, 2015 5:58 pm

I did say "supposedly" in AK. I also said "as far as I know...."

Per Geoff Goodall's database, the crash of the Red Bull Widgeon was way back in 2005 (March 29, 2005 to be exact, except he notes it happened in Austria and Bill said Italy) so in any case it may have traveled many, many miles since then. I was kinda surprised that the Red Bull guys didn't undertake to restore it themselves - not like they're hurting for money.

SCAN Type 30 serial no. 30 is not currently listed in the FAA registration database, so it could still be registered in another country or simply not registered at all right now. It'd take a while to check each individual country's civil registry. Maybe Bill knows something more and can chime in....
Last edited by Rajay on Wed Apr 08, 2015 9:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: From the beginning, starting with C/N 1201,

Postby ForsbergAviation » Wed Apr 08, 2015 6:06 pm

Oh, wait a minute. You don't have to ask anyone about SCAN 30, SN 30. I just talked to the guy that owns it.
Mystery Solved!

I found out what I wanted to know. It was fun chatting with all you folks.

THE END! :D. ROFLMAO
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Re: From the beginning, starting with C/N 1201,

Postby Rajay » Wed Apr 08, 2015 9:04 pm

Are you going to share with the rest of us what you found out about it, it's current status, who actually owns it now, etc?

I also found this reference to it on Flickr.com:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/65309169@N00/8466203244/

Text accompanying it as follows:

OE-FWS Grumman G-44A Widgeon (SCAN 30) C/N 30 Flying Bulls
Built in France in 1948, she saw service with the Louisiana Forestry and Fishing Commission. In 1979 the aircraft went to Nassau in the Bahamas, where it was used for flights between the individual islands. Sold in 1988 to Red Bull. Crashed and sank during a landing accident on the Garda Lake, Italy on March 29, 2005. It was subsequently raised and sold to a fellow in Alaska with the intention to rebuild it.
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Re: From the beginning, starting with C/N 1201,

Postby ForsbergAviation » Thu Apr 09, 2015 12:17 am

No.
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Re: From the beginning, starting with C/N 1201,

Postby ForsbergAviation » Thu Apr 09, 2015 5:26 am

Sorry, got called away to unload a 40 ft sea container. More airplane parts.

I spoke at length with the owner of the SCAN 30, Sn30. He has been watching the activity on this site. He would rather remain in the background at this time. (Only because I cant spell"Annomious").
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