The Mallard .... by the numbers

The source for references and discussion on all types & marques of this Grumman amphibian: photos, plans, manual pages & documents.

Re: The Mallard .... by the numbers

Postby Rajay » Sun May 26, 2013 5:33 pm

Bill,

I don't remember if I have ever asked you about this before or not, but do you (or anyone else here on the Flyingboat Forum) know anything about the differences between the Frakes G-73T turbine conversions which were done in accordance with STC SA2323WE using 680 shp PT6A-27 engines or 750 shp PT6A-34 series engines and the turbine conversions used on the Paspaley Pearls Mallard fleet?

The engine nacelles used by each of those conversions are noticably different - the Frakes' nacelles have a stepped double scoop underneath the front part of their cowlings and the nacelles themselves are relatively truncated, terminating only halfway back on the wing. On the other hand, the Paspaley Pearls turbine Mallards have much larger nacelles that sweep back actually aft of the trailing edge of the wing and there is only a single scoop underneath the front of their engine cowlings. Also, the Frakes G-73T turbine Mallards all still have 3-bladed props but the Paspaley Pearls turbine Mallards have 4-bladed props.

I'm not even sure if the Paspaley Pearls turbine Mallards use the same versions of the PT6A engine or something else entirely (they still look like a reverse-low engine but the PT6 series is not the only one of thosearound - the Czech Walter turboprop and the new GE H80 series that is based on it have the same general configurations) or if they were certified by means of their own STC in Australia or not. Does anyone even know when the Paspaley Pearls turbine Mallard conversions were done and by whom?

I have the site for searching aircraft registrations in Australia bookmarked, but I guess I'll have to do some searching around and see if they have their own CASA Web site equivalent to the FAA's Regulatory & Guidance Library site that might show something more about such an STC if it exists.
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Re: The Mallard .... by the numbers

Postby MrWidgeon » Mon May 27, 2013 12:01 am

I don't know a lot about the Paspaley conversion except that it's totally different from the Frakes.
New larger P&W PT-6 engines/props and longer nacelles are only part of it, there's also a modified wingtip and a new cabin entry door.
I believe they also went through a thorough airframe inspection and repair.
As far as I know the conversion was done locally to their own specs.
Since these were done by someone other that Frakes, they weren't under the same AD notice as the Frakes conversions were after the Chalks Miami crash involving J-27.

Part of the Frakes double scoop design was an air/water separation system to limit the amount of water ingested.
The Paspaley conversion uses a different system.

Bill
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Re: The Mallard .... by the numbers

Postby Kenny » Mon May 27, 2013 11:31 pm

How did I miss this thread...?

An earlier post made reference to G-ASCS and no picture being available...?

Found one on FLICKR but as it's out of sequence and it's your thread, Bill...

I may have misunderstood you too...
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Re: The Mallard .... by the numbers

Postby DaveS » Fri Jul 31, 2015 7:25 pm

The research you are doing if phenomenal. Can you shed any lite on the mallard aircraft company their website says affiliated with Frakes Aviation I think they are or were in western Ontario Canada?
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Re: The Mallard .... by the numbers

Postby Rajay » Fri Jul 31, 2015 7:52 pm

The "new" Mallard Aircraft Co. is a spin-off project of Frakes Aviation Inc. of Cleburne, TX, USA. Frakes has owned the former Grumman type certificates for the G-44 Widgeon series, the G-21A Goose, and the G-73 Mallard for more than 30 years; TC nos. A-734, ATC-654, and A-783 respectively.

They also now claim that they have formally incorporated the STC'd PT6A-27/-34 turbine conversion of the G-73 (making it into a G-73T) via their original STC no. SA2323WE into the basic TC for the Mallard (A-783) as an approved "option" but I have not yet seen an official revision of that TC which actually reflects or supports that claim. It is certainly not included in the official copy of A-783 still currently available via the FAA Regulatory & Guidance Library online - i.e. Revision 10 dated June 11, 2012.

http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgMakeModel.nsf/0/8442f134f2d91efc86257a21005a337b/$FILE/A-783%20Rev%2010.pdf

The "word" that I have heard is that they (Frakes) are really just looking for someone (an existing aircraft manufacturer) to partner with them in starting up a new G-73T Turbo Mallard production line or to simply buy them out and go it on their own. Kind of an "exit strategy" or "retirement plan" really. Apparently it is also rumored that the current generation of the Frakes family does not fully share the dreams of the previous generations who got them involved in the Grumman seaplane lines in the first place.
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Re: The Mallard .... by the numbers

Postby DaveS » Fri Jul 31, 2015 7:56 pm

thanks for the quick post, what I am trying to determine is if I can find is a Mallard, Goose or a Widgeon fuselage, I don’t need the wings, engines tail, landing gear avionics etc. I just need as an intact hull / superstructure as possible with the interior bulkheads. This plane will not be for museum restoration or flying, and was hoping that they would be a good place to start but it seems that might be a dead end
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Re: The Mallard .... by the numbers

Postby Rajay » Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:04 pm

Are you actually located in the UK - hence the interest in G-ASCS in particular?

If so that'd be a tall order.

There was a thread on the Warbird Information Exchange a few years ago that had photos of a pile of junked Mallard fuselages (and maybe a Widgeon and a couple of Gooses too for that matter) outside what I assumed was a former Dean Franklin Enterprises facility in south Florida 10- 15 years ago. Doubt they're still there. However, there was another thread (here) about 3 or 4 former Chalk's G-73T Turbo Mallards that were partially disassembled and shipped from Ft. Lauderdale up to Ft. Pierce maybe(?) for storage. They may be still extant.

And if I may, for what purpose are you interested in obtaining said fuselage? (My personal preference would be to favor endeavors to return each and every one to flying status and not to support any particular effort that goes the other direction, even in terms of non-flying or airworthy museum displays.... Just saying.) :)
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Re: The Mallard .... by the numbers

Postby DaveS » Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:31 pm

I am actually in the US in northern Virginia outside of Washington DC. And my intended purpose will sound sacrilege to any aviation enthusiast or pilot with an affinity for these aircraft. I really don’t want an AC that has the potential to be placed back into service that is why I am looking for just the Hull. I have always want to learn to fly and had planned to learn after I retired from the Army but as a result of an IED I can’t get licensed so my son suggested after seeing an Albatross land at an airshow of finding one that was not air worthy and converting into a boat complete with the correct markings and all. The Albatross is a bit too large for my intended use, and after researching these AC I have grown to appreciate their unique beauty. I know that sounds a bit farfetched but we are seriously looking in to the possibly
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Re: The Mallard .... by the numbers

Postby Rajay » Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:52 pm

Well...

1) Most importantly and above all else, thank you for your service to our country.
2) I am sorry that you were so severely injured/disabled.
3) You'd be surprised how far "gone" one of these aircraft can be and still be "worth" the time, effort and cost to restore - and they were so very rare from the get-go; Grumman built only 59 Mallards to start with - and they actually seem to be more prized and valuable than the Albatrosses to many people so you may actually find it cheaper and easier to find a non-airworthy Albatross fuselage to use for that purpose. By comparison, there were 345 Gooses, 417 Widgeons including French-built SCAN Type 30's, and including the 2 pre-production prototypes, 466 Albatrosses.
4) How do you plan to balance the "boat" without the wings and wing floats?
5) I've actually heard of and seen photos of "houseboats" built out of old Consolidated PBY Catalina fuselages so your conversion project idea is not so far-fetched.... In other words, go for it!
6) I'm still trying to make my own dreams regarding Grumman seaplanes come true, but if I am ever successful, I promise to look you up or track you down, and take you for a ride! In the meantime, I do know Bob Martin who lives just north of Baltimore and who owns Grumman G-21A Goose N600ZE (c/n B-100) He frequently visits the northern VA area, goes to Smithsonian-sponsored aviation events with his Goose, etc. Maybe in the meantime I could get you hooked up with him for a flight....
7) PM me with your direct e-mail address and I can send you some photos of interiors of both Mallards and Albatrosses. The Albatross in particular makes for one oh-so-fine Winnebago-like "motor home" that both flies and floats, or in terms of your planned project, which would only float.
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Re: The Mallard .... by the numbers

Postby DaveS » Mon Aug 03, 2015 7:53 pm

not to worry too much my injury only keeps me from piloting not flying and dose not limit me from doing much else. as my research progresses and after your input I am now leaning towards an Albatross even though it is a bit larger than what I was anticipating working with. I think the availability of a fuselage will make it easier to locate a suitable candidate for my project. I don't think the stability issue in the water is going to present a problem that cannot be overcome or at least I hope not, I have a friend who knows lots about boats and I am trying to get some inputs form a custom boat building company and a maritime museum as to the extent of the changes to the hull that will be needed. so far the consensus is that only the aft portion of the hull will need to be modified in order to changes the hull from the current 3 step hull design needed to provide tail clearance on takeoff to a single hull that will add to the stability in the water, also the boat builder at the museum said he thinks that without the wings the fuselage will perform more like a boat and there should be no big concern about balance after the rear portion of the hull is changed, I would appreciate your thoughts on this considering this guy is a boat builder not a pilot. he also said that the good thing is that an Albatross will have plenty of space under the floor or in nautical terms under the sole for things like the inboard engine, fuel tank and both clean and gray water storage this will place the center of gravity well below the waterline and greatly help in the stability sort of like ballast and he also said that the front (bow) and keel is plenty deep enough to perform as a boat.


an introduction to Bob Martin would be awesome, even if I just get his inputs as to the possibilities of changing an Albatross into a boat since he owns a G-21A Goose his perspective would be invaluable. and a flight would be over to top!
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