Mystery Goose - VP-BBK in the Bahamas - Solved!

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Mystery Goose - VP-BBK in the Bahamas - Solved!

Postby Rajay » Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:40 pm

Also still trying to identify this one by serial number:

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Last edited by Rajay on Sun Nov 04, 2012 1:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Another Mystery Goose - VP-BBK in the Bahamas

Postby Rajay » Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:26 pm

Hi Tony,

Thanks, but do you have any idea where you got that info? IIRC I've only ever found one reference to Goose registered as VP-BBK and it did not include any information regarding its serial number or subsequent registrations.

The registration of N2579B in Miami is one of many that I considered to be unconfirmed and possibly out-of-date. In fact, it officially expired a year and a half ago (on March 31, 2011.) I believe that Worldwide Aviation Distributors Inc. was one of Jim Confalone's shell companies associated with Chalk's when he owned it.
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Re: Another Mystery Goose - VP-BBK in the Bahamas

Postby MrWidgeon » Fri Nov 02, 2012 11:30 am

The Grumman Guidebook list it as follows :

B74 JRF-5 Del. 7-44 USN/Surplus BuAer37821, N2579B, VP-BAB, N5524A, VP-BBK, N2579B

The Guidebook is known to have some errors, but in this case it seems to match up with Tony's data.

Bill
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Re: Another Mystery Goose - VP-BBK in the Bahamas

Postby Rajay » Fri Nov 02, 2012 2:08 pm

As I told Bill, I do have my own copy of Mitch Mayborn's Grumman Guidebook - and it is so well-used that it's practically falling apart now. I agree with Bill also that it does contain some/several/many(?) known errors, but I must have simply forgotten to go back to it once I started trying to identify these several "mystery" Gooses that I recently posted on this forum. VP-BBK is one that simply slipped through the cracks.

Tony, I am well aware of the UK G-INFO aircraft registration database.

http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=60&pagetype=65&appid=1

Does it include historical "colonial" registrations as well or was the source to which you referred something else? And is it (your source) available online?

My comment about the Goose Central database was actually in regard to your information about N4762C (s/n B-60) (under a different thread) because they were both similarly (identically?) out-of-date and the information I had for it was readily available from common sources - the current FAA civil aircraft registry and the NTSB aircraft accident database.

All of this is just further proof that none of us individually is as smart as are all of us together. That's also why they invented Quality Control - because a second and even a third set of eyes looking over and checking things is always better than doing it alone.

Sincerely, thanks for all of the help.
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Re: Another Mystery Goose - VP-BBK in the Bahamas

Postby MrWidgeon » Fri Nov 02, 2012 6:15 pm

Tony, Grumman used the term Construction Number(s) instead of Serial Number(s) so that would be correct in this case.
As to why the return to the earlier registration, who knows, owners peccadillo is as good an explanation as any.
Or wanting to return it to an earlier time, or maybe he owned or flew the airplane the first time around.
I don't really know.
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Re: Another Mystery Goose - VP-BBK in the Bahamas

Postby Rajay » Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:41 am

FAA Advisory Circulars AC 21-12b and AC 21-13 relate to procedures and requirements for the issuance of new certificates of airworthiness and in regard to former miltary aircraft, both documents specify that former military serial numbers should not be used for civilan registrations IF a separate civilian serial number was ever assigned to the aircraft by the OEM. So, according to that all Gooses ever registered under a former military serial number (such as 37821) were done so incorrectly.

Apparently, not enough people have read or are familiar with those two Advisor Circulars. That group of people includes a former partner in Antilles Seaplanes who, after buying the salvaged remains of N1048V from Dean Franklin in Miami, registered it not under its OEM Grumman serial no. (B-46) but rather incorrectly under its former US Navy BuNo. - 37793.

That same group of people also includes every single civilian owner of a Grumman Albatross. Not one is currently registered under its OEM Grumman serial number (which ranged from G-1 through G-464) but rather under a former military serial number - or some incorrectly bastardized version of one like N116AG for example.

N116AG is registered as serial no. 17164 but that is an incorrectly truncated version of its former USAF serial no. which was actually 51-7164 - but its actual Grumman c/n was G-214.

One of the primary problems with former military serial numbers is that they often changed each time the aircraft was transferred from one branch of the service to another. In the same case of N116AG, it was built as a US Navy model HU-16C (LU-16C) and was originally assigned BuNo. 142429 but it was subsequently identified as s/n 51-7164 only after it was transferred to the USAF.
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