Short Sunderland Mk.I propeller question....

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Short Sunderland Mk.I propeller question....

Postby seawings » Fri May 12, 2017 10:44 pm

Can anyone tell me the make, type and particularly the dimensions of the props fitted to the Mk.I..?

I'm building a 1/32 scale model of one and this is the 'last great hurdle' sourcing 4 x props but need to know what I'm looking for first.

From that information, the idea is that I work out what 1/32 scale plastic kit contains either the exact prop(s) or something very close and then go looking for them as spares or already built that someone can sell to me, or indeed that I can by from a scale model source as new, say resin or injected ones.

Solving this finally gives me everything I need to finish the engine nacelles, and thus the whole 'boat.

Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks.
Best Regards,

Bryan Ribbans
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Re: Short Sunderland Mk.I propeller question....

Postby DavidLegg » Sat May 13, 2017 12:54 pm

Hi Brtyan - hope all is well.

A little outside my comfort zone here but try this for starters. Ocean Sentinel - The Short Sunderland by John F Hamlin (Air-Britain) says on page 12 that (referring to the Mk I) ":...the de Havilland-made Hamilton propellers were replaced by 12ft 6in (3.81m) constant speed propellers with spinners". There is no mention of what these units replaced. Short Sunderland by Ken Delve (Crowood) on page 11 confirms that the Mk I had "DH three-bladed two pitch metal propellers".

As I say, not my area of expertise so others may be able to confirm or add further detail.
Last edited by DavidLegg on Sat May 13, 2017 10:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Short Sunderland Mk.I propeller question....

Postby seawings » Sat May 13, 2017 1:07 pm

Hi David,

many thanks.

All I have to do now is find a 1/32 scale kit that contains those props..!
Best Regards,

Bryan Ribbans
Owner of:

The Flying Boat Forum
SEAWINGS - The Website

"I put the sweat of my life into this project, and if it's a failure, I'll leave the country and never come back".
Howard Hughes, re: the HK-1 Hughes Flying Boat, aka the 'Spruce Goose,' 1946.
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Re: Short Sunderland Mk.I propeller question....

Postby sunderlandmr5 » Sun May 14, 2017 7:52 am

seawings wrote:Can anyone tell me the make, type and particularly the dimensions of the props fitted to the Mk.I..?

I'm building a 1/32 scale model of one and this is the 'last great hurdle' sourcing 4 x props but need to know what I'm looking for first.

From that information, the idea is that I work out what 1/32 scale plastic kit contains either the exact prop(s) or something very close and then go looking for them as spares or already built that someone can sell to me, or indeed that I can by from a scale model source as new, say resin or injected ones.

Solving this finally gives me everything I need to finish the engine nacelles, and thus the whole 'boat.

Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks.


Hi Bryan,

Hope you are well also?

Not wanting to sound like a smarty pants :) , but the Sunderland Mk I Manual (Air Publication 1556 A Vol 1,
1st edition 1938) states that the airscrew was:

Type: 3 bladed Metal - 2 pitch

Diameter: 12 Foot 9 inch (388.62cm) which in 1/32 scale = 121.443mm


Mk III Sunderland manual states the following:

Early Production Mk III Sunderland
D.H. 5/28, 3 bladed variable pitch (20 degree bracket type) with constant speed control.

Later Production Mk III Sunderland
D.H. DR. 2/345/2, 3 Bladed variable pitch, with constant speed control feathering.

Both Sets of Mk III Propellers diameters: 12 foot 9inch (388.62cm)

Hope that helps?

Regards

Alan
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Re: Short Sunderland Mk.I propeller question....

Postby DavidLegg » Sun May 14, 2017 9:27 am

So the above data re the Mk I conflicts with what Hamlin says in the A-B book!
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Re: Short Sunderland Mk.I propeller question....

Postby seawings » Sun May 14, 2017 11:58 am

Morning Alan,

I wondered how long it would take until I heard from you!!

Grateful thanks as ever and not smart at all.

I should know these things but Hey, Ho, life just gets in the way sometimes.

Still working on the 'beast' which actually is a pleasure and keeping me sane ( .....I mean occupied) right now. Determined to finish it this year and hand it to its rightful owner - a life-long Sunderland 'nut'.

Thanks again,
Best Regards,

Bryan Ribbans
Owner of:

The Flying Boat Forum
SEAWINGS - The Website

"I put the sweat of my life into this project, and if it's a failure, I'll leave the country and never come back".
Howard Hughes, re: the HK-1 Hughes Flying Boat, aka the 'Spruce Goose,' 1946.
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Re: Short Sunderland Mk.I propeller question....

Postby seawings » Sun May 14, 2017 12:14 pm

BTW:

Is there a really good picture of the blade's profile (frontal view, not the thickness) and the hub on the MK.I anywhere?

I've looked through some references I have but ther'e not showing me a decent head-on to a blade.

I'm going to have to source these four props from an injected molded kit and the only one (I think) that is going to give me what I want is the 1/32 Revell Beaufighter. I've had fantastic help from 'friends' on Facebook - which is one hell-of-a resource when one needs help, so I'm hoping to find someone who has scrapped their build from years ago and can let the props go, or a broken 'shelf-queen' where the props still exist.

Strangely, it's something I over-looked when considering this build - I've now sourced four engines, nacelles and exhausts (which came from the 1/32 Matchbox/Revell Lysander kit and spookily the exhausts appear to be identical to the Sunderlands so will svae scratchbuilding - I just need to check that out a bit more first) I'm working on building these 'poer-eggs' now and using kit parts is so, so much better than scratchbuilding or using the vac-form parts which were/are total crap.

But, and here's the rub; the Lysander prop blades look to my eye much wider in the centre-section of the blade than a Sunderland blade. That's wider as in looking at the blade from the frontal aspect, thickness is also a bit of an issue but I could live with that but these blades don't lkook like they will scrape down with a knife blade and frankly, I don't fancy the job one jot when there are twelve to do and get all the same.

Nope, it will be a case of sourcing the nearest best looking prop and I think the Beaufighter is the one.

Unless anyone knows different?
Best Regards,

Bryan Ribbans
Owner of:

The Flying Boat Forum
SEAWINGS - The Website

"I put the sweat of my life into this project, and if it's a failure, I'll leave the country and never come back".
Howard Hughes, re: the HK-1 Hughes Flying Boat, aka the 'Spruce Goose,' 1946.
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Re: Short Sunderland Mk.I propeller question....

Postby AndersG » Sun May 14, 2017 3:54 pm

Could one not suspect that the Mk. I propellers and hubs might have been close to those of the S.23 Empire 'boats?

To quote from [B. Cassidy, "Flying Empires Short 'C' class flying boats", 2004]:
"The airscrews fitted initially to all the 'boats were de Havilland 5000 series 2 position variable pitch units of 12 ft. 9 ins. diameter ..."
which sounds rather close to the Mk. I Sunderland specifics above. Not that that might help finding a scale part, though...
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Re: Short Sunderland Mk.I propeller question....

Postby seawings » Sun May 14, 2017 6:56 pm

Hi AndersG,

Yes, you are probably correct in both instances!
Best Regards,

Bryan Ribbans
Owner of:

The Flying Boat Forum
SEAWINGS - The Website

"I put the sweat of my life into this project, and if it's a failure, I'll leave the country and never come back".
Howard Hughes, re: the HK-1 Hughes Flying Boat, aka the 'Spruce Goose,' 1946.
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seawings
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Re: Short Sunderland Mk.I propeller question....

Postby sunderlandmr5 » Tue May 16, 2017 5:50 am

seawings wrote:BTW:

Is there a really good picture of the blade's profile (frontal view, not the thickness) and the hub on the MK.I anywhere?

I've looked through some references I have but ther'e not showing me a decent head-on to a blade.

I'm going to have to source these four props from an injected molded kit and the only one (I think) that is going to give me what I want is the 1/32 Revell Beaufighter. I've had fantastic help from 'friends' on Facebook - which is one hell-of-a resource when one needs help, so I'm hoping to find someone who has scrapped their build from years ago and can let the props go, or a broken 'shelf-queen' where the props still exist.

Strangely, it's something I over-looked when considering this build - I've now sourced four engines, nacelles and exhausts (which came from the 1/32 Matchbox/Revell Lysander kit and spookily the exhausts appear to be identical to the Sunderlands so will svae scratchbuilding - I just need to check that out a bit more first) I'm working on building these 'poer-eggs' now and using kit parts is so, so much better than scratchbuilding or using the vac-form parts which were/are total crap.

But, and here's the rub; the Lysander prop blades look to my eye much wider in the centre-section of the blade than a Sunderland blade. That's wider as in looking at the blade from the frontal aspect, thickness is also a bit of an issue but I could live with that but these blades don't lkook like they will scrape down with a knife blade and frankly, I don't fancy the job one jot when there are twelve to do and get all the same.

Nope, it will be a case of sourcing the nearest best looking prop and I think the Beaufighter is the one.

Unless anyone knows different?


Hi Bryan,

This is the best front on of a Mk I that I know of, I have put this as a link, so the photo will appear
larger for you than one through Photobucket etc

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3Yff6 ... sp=sharing

As far as the propeller hub goes, this in not directly front on, but you can "eyeball" it or
have a look at the 1/32 Lysander Hub (probably a Fairey type) may suit what you need
and cast some in resin?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3Yff6 ... sp=sharing

Do we get to see some photos when done :D

Hope that helps?

Regards

Alan
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