Can anyone ID this plane?

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Re: Can anyone ID this plane?

Postby seamaster » Mon Jul 27, 2009 12:53 pm

I have a photo of a Hall PH-3 being fitted with a torpedo on it's port side and if you compare the height of the ground crew beside the airplane with the height of the fuselage I don't think the inside height could accomodate the guy in the photo unless he's a midget.

Sorry cannot add the photo as Photoreflex is not working. I can e-mail it to anyone though.

Louis
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Re: Can anyone ID this plane?

Postby mattrix10 » Mon Jul 27, 2009 2:14 pm

seamaster wrote:
(...)if you compare the height of the ground crew beside the airplane with the height of the fuselage I don't think the inside height could accomodate the guy in the photo unless he's a midget.


I hate to admit that you are right, PH-3's (or -2's) were not of that deep fuselage. See also here:
http://collections.naval.aviation.museu ... firn=25262
A crew member could stand there, but there would not be so much clearance over his head. I am out of ideas. My PH-3 hypothesis seems to be ungrounded now.
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Re: Can anyone ID this plane?

Postby seamaster » Mon Jul 27, 2009 3:52 pm

I know the dates are wrong but what if it is a PB4Y-2G Privateer. The photo caption could be wrong. I am not familiar with the interior arrangement of the Privateer however..
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Re: Can anyone ID this plane?

Postby MrWidgeon » Tue Jul 28, 2009 4:13 pm

The Privateers had the same fuselage cross section as the B-24/PB4Y-1.
Flat sides and a slightly rounded top and bottom.
The PH-3 had a deeper fuselage behind the cockpit than the PH-2.
It could also carry up to 20 people in an emergency, it was a little bigger than you think.


Image
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Re: Can anyone ID this plane?

Postby seamaster » Tue Jul 28, 2009 5:06 pm

I am still not sure, if you go to the naval Aviation Museum site :http://collections.naval.aviation.museum/Query.php

And enter :1993.501.073.133

You will get the photo I was talking about, the crew loading a torpedo on a PH-3. The size of the crew can be compared to the fuselage depth, it appears a close fit. Also the only opening I can see is the little port hole.

The initial photo posted in this thread is: 2009.006.092

If you enter 2009.006.090 the same crewman is now holding a camera through a square porthole, could this be a Coronado?

Understand i am not arguing for argument sake, I just have a hard time resolving the size issue.
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Re: Can anyone ID this plane?

Postby MrWidgeon » Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:26 am

It's an outside possibility, the USCG operated 2 PB2Y-3s and 3 PB2Y-5s out of California beginning in 1944, but all the ports on the Coronado were rectangular and not very large, plus the upper corners of the hull were rounded like the B-24, not angled in at the top like that in the first picture.
I couldn't get the pictures to open at the NMNA site (But I DID find some new Widgeon pics, THANK YOU !).
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Re: Can anyone ID this plane?

Postby Pondskater » Wed Jul 29, 2009 3:44 pm

No really my area but I notice the reference to other photos on the site which are clearly part of the same sequence. There seem to be three in the set, all taken on the same day and therefore quite likely to be the same aircraft.
http://collections.naval.aviation.museu ... firn=25395
http://collections.naval.aviation.museu ... FQuery.php
http://collections.naval.aviation.museu ... FQuery.php

Assuming that they are all the same aircraft, then those windows are a good clue.

Allan
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Re: Can anyone ID this plane?

Postby sunderlandmr5 » Fri Jul 31, 2009 5:29 am

Could it possibly be a Guard Martin Mariner?

The small hatch under the wing looks similar to the one
in the third Web link (crewman taking photo) posted by Pondskater

Image

This picture shows a PBM interior
Image

The size of the aircraft would suit an interior of photo in question, if you look midships there is a small
enclosed area (where the afore mentioned hatch is) that would fit the photo in question.

Regards

Alan
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Re: Can anyone ID this plane?

Postby mattrix10 » Fri Jul 31, 2009 6:52 am

Thank you saunderlandmr5 for your suggestions. I was considering a Mariner, too. It has however different hull walls slope and more importantly, does not fit the time frame (they started to operate them in USCG as late as 1943).
It is also my another ungrounded hypothesis, that none of the pictured selected by Pondskater (thank you, I skipped these at my earlier browsing) were actually taken in flight (because it was easier to do like that). They might be even taken on different planes, why should they restrict themselves to only one type?
I am pretty sure, that # 2009.006.091 was not made outdoors. It was shot rather in studio-like conditions, note a soft shadow on the wall/screen behind the gunner.
As for the Consolidated PB2Y suggestion, I would not agree, as the Coronado hull was roughly twice the width of the airplane in question.
The 2009.006.090 raises few more doubts. Is it normal position for the crew member of this plane to take shots on some recon mission, is this hatch glazed, etc.?
So without any conclusive findings at hand, I am attaching this picture to my Hall PH-3 collection.
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