Dornier Seastar

Martin Seamaster through to the Canadair CL-215 & 415 and the Shinmaiwa US-1.

Dornier Seastar

Postby Stealer » Mon Aug 17, 2009 10:14 pm

Here's another modern amphibian. It's the Dornier Seastar, and it's a direct descendant of the Dornier DO-18!

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Re: Dornier Seastar

Postby Rajay » Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:20 pm

I've read that with a gross weight of only 10,500 lbs you can either fill the tanks and fly 1,000 miles or fill the seats (and not necessarily with 200 lb people either!) and fly only about 150 miles!

Also, because of its composite construction, it can be painted any color you want - as long as it's white!

On top of that, it has one of the strangest FAA type certificates in history - it is "certified" but it is NOT "authorized" to fly (i.e. be registered) in the United States! What is that all about?
Last edited by Rajay on Thu May 17, 2012 3:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dornier Seastar

Postby Stealer » Wed Sep 08, 2010 1:32 pm

Where did you read that? According to the attached spec sheet that's 10,141lbs (4,499kg) fully laden. Empty she's 7,230lbs (3,279kg). The engines produce 1300HP too. A composite aircraft can be made in colour you want. Just take a look at all the different colours and and graphics on windsurfers, and they're almost all made of composite materials lie carbon/kevlar weave and fibreglass.

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These are the specified operating costs compared with two other seaplanes:

http://www.dornierseaplane.com/content/direct-operating-costs
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Re: Dornier Seastar

Postby Rajay » Thu May 17, 2012 2:51 pm

Most recent news about the Seastar - a colleague just sent me this link this morning:

http://www.generalaviationnews.com/2012/05/16/dornier-seastar-cd2-on-world-tour/?utm_source=The+Pulse+Subscribers&utm_campaign=947f74b6b5-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email

Funny thing, at least to me, is that this particular article makes it sound as though the decisions or plans to build new Dornier CD2 Seastar aircraft outside of Montreal were never really finalized. The article made no mention of any actual production taking place in Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu, Quebec as they announced it would be done over two years ago.

This article also makes it sound more as if all Dornier has been doing since 2008 is flying their demonstrator around the world while also looking for new deals, both for sales and for new production.
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Re: Dornier Seastar

Postby Rajay » Thu May 17, 2012 3:15 pm

Stealer wrote:Where did you read that? According to the attached spec sheet that's 10,141lbs (4,499kg) fully laden. Empty she's 7,230lbs (3,279kg). The engines produce 1300HP too. A composite aircraft can be made in colour you want. Just take a look at all the different colours and and graphics on windsurfers, and they're almost all made of composite materials lie carbon/kevlar weave and fibreglass.


Okay, so 10,141 lbs gross is not even as good as if it had been 10,500 lbs.

With a gross of 10,141 lbs. and an empty weight of 7,230 lbs. that gives a useful load of 2,911 lbs. It supposedly holds 458 gallons of Jet-A fuel at 6.7 lbs/gal. = 3,068.6 lbs. SO... without even a pilot on board, if you fill up the fuel tanks, the airplane is over its certified gross weight limit - by 157.6 lbs. That means that any line boy is capable of "grounding" the aircraft simply by filling up the fuel tanks.

If on the other hand, you fill up the seats (2 crew + 12 passengers) at the unrealistically low FAA standard of 170 lbs. per person, that equals 2,380 lbs (with no baggage at all) out of the useful load of 2,911 lbs. which leaves just 531 lbs (or 79.25 gallons) of fuel that can be loaded onboard. At a reduced fuel burn of 40 gallons per hour per engine, that means that it then has an endurance of less than 1 hour until "tanks dry" with absolutely no reserve at all. If it cruises normally at only 180 knots (compared to 200-220 knots for a G-21G Turbo Goose) then at such a reduced power/cruise setting you might figure that the Seastar would go only 140-150 nm under this loading configuration before the engines flame out.

And the fact that it can be painted only in white is officially specified in its US (FAA) type certificate, A62EU, which under NOTE 6 states:
"Painting - White is the only permitted color for the aircraft frame. Changing the color and the thickness of the coat is only permissible after prior approval by the manufacturer."
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Re: Dornier Seastar

Postby 9aplus » Sat May 19, 2012 9:41 am

Max allowed wave height for water take off and landing.....
Anyone have that info?
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Re: Dornier Seastar

Postby fastaviationdata » Tue Sep 10, 2013 3:33 am

Here is the Specification of Seastar

General characteristics:
Crew: One or two
Capacity: 12 passengers
Length: 12.46 m (40 ft 10½ in)
Wingspan: 15.50 m (50 ft 10¼ in)
Height: 4.60 m (15 ft 1 in)
Wing area: 28.48 m2 (306.6 ft2)
Empty weight: 2,400 kg (5,291 lb)
Gross weight: 4,200 kg (9,259 lb)
Powerplant: 2 × Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6A-112, 373 kW (500 hp) each each

Performance:
Cruising speed: 341 km/h (212 mph)
Stall speed: 115 km/h (72 mph)
Range: 1,850 km (1,150 miles)
Endurance: 9[5] hours 12 min
Service ceiling: 8,535 m (28,000 ft)
Rate of climb: 8.0 m/s (1,575 ft/min)
Takeoff Distance to 15 m (50 ft): 410 m (1,345 ft)
Landing Distance from 15 m (50 ft) (on land): 480 m (1,575 ft)
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Re: Dornier Seastar

Postby Rajay » Wed Nov 30, 2016 12:54 am

fastaviationdata wrote:Here is the Specification of Seastar

General characteristics:
Crew: One or two
Capacity: 12 passengers
Length: 12.46 m (40 ft 10½ in)
Wingspan: 15.50 m (50 ft 10¼ in)
Height: 4.60 m (15 ft 1 in)
Wing area: 28.48 m2 (306.6 ft2)
Empty weight: 2,400 kg (5,291 lb)
Gross weight: 4,200 kg (9,259 lb)
Powerplant: 2 × Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6A-112, 373 kW (500 hp) each each

Performance:
Cruising speed: 341 km/h (212 mph)
Stall speed: 115 km/h (72 mph)
Range: 1,850 km (1,150 miles)
Endurance: 9[5] hours 12 min
Service ceiling: 8,535 m (28,000 ft)
Rate of climb: 8.0 m/s (1,575 ft/min)
Takeoff Distance to 15 m (50 ft): 410 m (1,345 ft)
Landing Distance from 15 m (50 ft) (on land): 480 m (1,575 ft)

Bumping this thread in part because rumors are that it is finally actually "in production" with Diamond expected to deliver the first new fuselages to Germany by the end of the year for final assembly there in 2017.

The "provisional" US type certificate (which itself is not fully approved pending full and final certification in Germany) notes that at this point, the Seastar is "not eligible for operations in the US". It also specifies PT6A-135A engines rated at 650 shp for take-off and 500 shp for continuous operation. As well the TC (no. A62EU) specifies "crew: 1" and "seats: 12" - and in my experience with other aircraft and FAA type certificates, that is the total number of seats approved for the aircraft, including crew - which would translate to 2 in the cockpit and only 10 in the cabin - not as "12 passenger seats" as commonly noted. And according to all of the Dornier promotional literature that I have seen, its cruising speed is only about 180 knots as also noted in TC A62EU as "design cruising speed" = 182 KCAS and "max operating speed" = 180 KCAS.

All of that aside, I was really more curious if anyone knows what exactly happened to the first two prototypes. Wikipedia says that only 2 have been built, but does not list particulars. It also notes that (and apparently does not count) the very first "proof of concept" prototype which did not conform to the later or "final" type design by for one example using a metal wing from an existing Do-28 aircraft that was mounted with secondary support struts between the wing and sponsons - unlike the final design which used only cabane struts between the wing and fuselage. (see below.)

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Plus D-ICKS and D-ISEA were two distinct aircraft, right? (Not the same aircraft with different registrations at different times...)
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Re: Dornier Seastar

Postby Rajay » Wed Nov 30, 2016 1:18 am

Now my further "research" indicates that the airplane pictured above was considered to be a model CD.1 or CD-01A and that both it and the first model CD-2, serial no. 1001, were registered as D-ICDS (the registration being transferred after the CD.1 crashed in a wheels-down water landing in July 1985) but that D-ICKS and D-ISEA are in fact the same aircraft, CD-2 Seastar serial no. 1002.

Could they have made it any more confusing?
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