Sunderland prototype 37mm COW fitting

From the Singapore and Southampton through to the Short Empire

Re: Sunderland prototype 37mm COW fitting

Postby schneiderman » Sat Dec 15, 2012 7:44 pm

Thanks!
After I posted the original question I found a Short patent for mounting twin COW guns amidships so that they could fire vertically, that makes a bit of sense although timing firing would have been tricky.
schneiderman
 
Posts: 226
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2010 8:34 pm
Location: UK, down south

Re: Sunderland prototype 37mm COW fitting

Postby Pondskater » Sat Dec 15, 2012 8:18 pm

Ah, interesting.

I haven't seen the patent and don't remember seeing the detail that they were vertically mounted in the notes I saw but give me a week or two to get to my files and I'll let you know what I found.
User avatar
Pondskater
 
Posts: 217
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2009 1:28 am
Location: UK - Deep south west

Re: Sunderland prototype 37mm COW fitting

Postby Pondskater » Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:08 pm

These any use? They are about the initial discussion for the COW gun. Clearly they were looking back to a need to harass surface shipping, mostly light weight stuff rather than using it as a weapon against submarines. it appears to have been dropped while still at this discussion stage before any detail design work was done.

Image

Image

Image

And then these three as well.

Image

Image

Image

Later on (1941 onwards) there were some trials carried out at MAEE in Helensburgh for various cannon on the Sunderland. They trialled 20mm free mounted and in a fixed mounting in the nose and a 40mm in the beam position. But none of them were deemed successful so the scheme was dropped. The beam was a particular worry because the float was in the way!

All interesting stuff which would make a good chapter in a book on the Sunderland - if I can get time to write it.

AllanK
User avatar
Pondskater
 
Posts: 217
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2009 1:28 am
Location: UK - Deep south west

Re: Sunderland prototype 37mm COW fitting

Postby dogsbody » Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:53 pm

Can you imagine a Sunderland, with a 40mm Bofors or Vickers, mounted in a beam position, attacking a U-boat in the same way a AC-130 Spooky would attack targets in Vietnam! Awesome!


Chris
"What young man could possibly be bored
with a uniform to wear,
a fast aeroplane to fly,
and something to shoot at?"
User avatar
dogsbody
 
Posts: 547
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2009 3:58 pm
Location: Northern Alberta, Canada

Re: Sunderland prototype 37mm COW fitting

Postby schneiderman » Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:57 pm

Allan,

Many thanks, that is all most useful. Here are the figs. taken from the Short patent for midship vertical cannon installation

Cheers

Ralph
Attachments
GB464691A8.jpg
GB464691A8.jpg (190.71 KiB) Viewed 9484 times
GB464691A7.jpg
GB464691A7.jpg (146.06 KiB) Viewed 9484 times
schneiderman
 
Posts: 226
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2010 8:34 pm
Location: UK, down south

Re: Sunderland prototype 37mm COW fitting

Postby seawings » Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:12 pm

It might pay to re-size the image as it's far too large in physical size to up-load and display.

If you have trouble with that, by all means email it to me and I'll do it for you and up-load from here at the World Headquarters of SEAWINGS.

Just a thought..........
Best Regards,

Bryan Ribbans
Owner of:

The Flying Boat Forum
SEAWINGS - The Website

"I put the sweat of my life into this project, and if it's a failure, I'll leave the country and never come back".
Howard Hughes, re: the HK-1 Hughes Flying Boat, aka the 'Spruce Goose,' 1946.
User avatar
seawings
Site Admin
 
Posts: 724
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 5:51 pm

Re: Sunderland prototype 37mm COW fitting

Postby MrWidgeon » Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:34 pm

Or you can do the same thing I did .... copy & paste, then re-size and re-post.

Bill
In water flying attitude is everything
User avatar
MrWidgeon
 
Posts: 893
Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2009 8:48 am
Location: Idaho, USA

Re: Sunderland prototype 37mm COW fitting

Postby schneiderman » Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:32 pm

Hi,
Looks fine on my screen and the file size is not large, but feel free to reconfigure and reload if you wish.
Cheers
Ralph
schneiderman
 
Posts: 226
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2010 8:34 pm
Location: UK, down south

Re: Sunderland prototype 37mm COW fitting

Postby Pondskater » Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:51 pm

Ralph

Thanks for those. That's even more nuts than firing a 40mm out of the side window. Keeping the integrity of the hull - both watertight and without cutting too many frames looks like a challenge, especially with the long channel needed for the arc of fire shown in the drawing

I managed to find this write up on the patent - interestingly dated 1937 sometime after the debate in the Air Ministry but the application seems to be Oct 1935. It lends weight to the idea that the COW gun was dropped very early in 1936:
Gun mountings for use on aircraft. Oct. 22, 1935. A flying boat is fitted with a central gun or two side-byside guns pivoted for fore-and-aft elevational adjustment and adapted to fire downwards through an aperture or apertures in the hull, the pivot being so located that, when firing directly downwards, the recoil is directed towards the centre of gravity of the aircraft, means being provided for closing the aperture or apertures in a watertight manner when the gun or guns are withdrawn into the boat. The pivoting point is preferably arranged at such a distance immediately below the centre of gravity that the desired arc of fire is obtained with the aperture space available. Fig. 1 shows a single gun b pivotally movable on trunnions b<1> supported from the wing structure by a pyramidal frame b<2>. The gun fires through a longitudinal aperture a<1> which is closed by a watertight plug when the gun is withdrawn to occupy the horizontal position shown. A gimbal joint at b<1> permits a limited transverse adjustment of the gun across the width of the aperture. Fig. 3 shows a pair of guns supported by a common pivot e<3> on a frame e<4>. Each gun can be moved transversely on a pivot e<

Thanks for posting it - another intriguing 'what if'.

BTW - the 40mm in the side windows couldn't be consistently trained on the target, partly because of the difficulty of flying the aircraft in a consistent circle around a seaborne target. I wonder how the AC-130 overcame that - or did accuracy not matter too much when trying to terrorise a whole field full of the enemy?

The pics show up fine here too but I have a large screen. However, I dropped them into photobucket which might help as well. Let me know if that is a problem

Cheers

AllanK

Image

Image
User avatar
Pondskater
 
Posts: 217
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2009 1:28 am
Location: UK - Deep south west

Previous

Return to Between the Wars - The 'Golden' Era - 1918 to 1939



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

Help keep this forum ad-free - please Donate


This free, ad-free forum is hosted by ForumLaunch